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 Post subject: Chambres D'Hotes & Obligatory training course
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:25 am 
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Location: Ambert 63600
I have just returned from a three day training course that is now obligatory for anyone applying for a drinks licence of any type. The course last three days and costs about 850 Euros! Although some of mine was paid for by the local Tourist Committee. I had to postpone my move to go on it.

According to the trainer anyone who applies for a licence will be obliged to do the course but many Mairies don't know about it yet. They are also going to include all those who have held licences for less than ten years. Those who have had them for more than ten years can do a one day course.

Apparently 'the Mairie said it was okay' will not be accepted if you are controlled. During our course one girl who is running a bar/hotel discovered that she was trading illegally. The trainer took her to the Douane office who confirmed that her local Mairie had not submitted the papers and told her to close immediately!

A lot of the items covered by the course were not relevant to a Chambres D'Hotes at all but interesting none the less. The big issue is that Chambres D'H's are now expected to abide by rules devised for proper restaurants & there is likely to be a lot of friction caused by this. For example, most CD'H offer a meal with drinks included in the price, this is currently ok but there is a new law 'bachelot' that will end this. Then drinks will have to be ordered & sold separately with all that that entails. This will lead to accusations that we are parahoteliers. Another issue was that the tiles required to prevent people from slipping do not meet the hygiene standard. Whichever you choose will put you firmly in the wrong...........................

For a three bedroom Chambres D'Hotes serving an aperitif and wine with a meal I now have a Grand Restauration Licence plus a Licence 1 to enable me to serve drinks (coffee/orange juice) with breakfast! and through out the day.

This has been in place since 2007 but as no one knew very few people did the training at first. They are now training intensively thoughout France & without the certificate your licence isn't valid, although time will be allowed for existing licence holders.

I now have to register with the "Services Veterinaire" and do another training course for basic hygiene. I was going to do this anyway but it is now obligatory.

The trainer was great & made the reams of legal stuff interesting. I enjoyed meeting the other trainees as well. But it seemed like a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut. the fees were expensive for the owners of Chambres D' but not an issue for Managers of large hotels. The relevant information for us could easily be condensed into a day.


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 Post subject: Re: Chambres D'Hotes & Obligatory training course
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:21 pm 
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Location: Here and there, SW France
Ouch!
How did you find out about the requirement?
I have several friends who run CdH, serving wine with meals, none of them have been on one (yet....!)


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 Post subject: Re: Chambres D'Hotes & Obligatory training course
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:01 pm 
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Location: Ambert 63600
I found out because we are with Gites de France & are due for our inspection in a few weeks. One of their criteria is the licence so it had to be done! GDF think it is way OTT & have asked if they can run their own shorter course but even if the answer is yes it will take a couple of years to sort out.

I thought perhaps it was just new licences but it isn't although I imagine it will take a long time to train everyone!


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 Post subject: Re: Chambres D'Hotes & Obligatory training course
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:45 pm 
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Location: Paris, France
Hi there. Can you please help me understand which organization runs the course for the drinks licenses and also for the hygiene courses? I'm in the process of setting up my own business (a café)....and I'd appreciate any help you can send my way! I'd like to register for the required training...

thanks much, diane


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 Post subject: Re: Chambres D'Hotes & Obligatory training course
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:47 am 
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Location: Ambert 63600
Hi Diane,

haven't done the hygiene course yet but was told to get in touch with the local "Services Veterinaire"! I don't think I would ever have worked that out for myself.

The training was done by UMIH whose main address is 22 Rue D'Anjou, 75008 Paris.
Their website is

www.umihformation.fr

The Auvergne had negotiated a discount for the first training course and then I received a grant for 50% of the remainder through the local Office de Tourisme. It would be worth asking!

Good luck


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 Post subject: Re: Chambres D'Hotes & Obligatory training course
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:35 am 
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The original idea of CdH, like good old British B&B, was a simple and relatively cheap way of finding accommodation. In the past, you could find yourselves using the host's bathroom. Even guests in small hotels shared bathrooms and loos. Over the years, people have liked the idea of staying somewhere a little more informal than a hotel, but have gradually sought a little more comfort, ie an en suite bathroom. It wasn't so long ago that many B&B rooms in France shared a bathroom and loo which could be found down the passage. The accommodation was usually simple, clean and comfortable (though there were certainly exceptions....!).

Nowadays, many if not most, B&Bs offer better accommodation than the cheaper chain hotels, and the prices have begun to reflect this. We have a guest room with its own bathroom which we occasionally use for B&B and we have always been asked if it has its own facilities. This is what people now expect and take for granted.

The owners of a small, extremely comfortable hotel/restaurant in a village nearby said they were surprised that B&Bs these days didn't have to conform to hygiene requirements, particularly those that offered meals. I can't be specific about the number of rooms, but over 5, I believe, and you are obliged to have fire doors and heaven knows what other obligations and inspections.

It was inevitable, I suppose, that CdHs today were going to be dragged into the bureaucratic net. After all, many of them are really quite luxurious and offer far more than most of the small village hotels. A CdH is no longer somewhere you can have a simple night's accommodation, and share your host's dinner for a few francs. There are very few B&Bs today that charge less than 45€ for the room with breakfast included. The competition for attracting customers has increased and CdHs are offering all sorts of extras - use of swimming pool, jacuzzi, bicycles - to attract customers.

The whole concept of CdH/B&B has changed from and informal, often cash-based business, to something far more commercial and the bean counters in Paris have seen yet another possibility for a layer of bureaucratic red tape. :roll:

Thank you for your posting, Coco. It was very interesting and informative - and just adds to the complications already brought about by the obligations introduced last year or the year before. Why keep things simple when you can complicate them? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Chambres D'Hotes & Obligatory training course
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:00 pm 
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We set up 12 months ago doing CdH & TdH and with the assistance of our chambres de commerce obtained a 'licence restaruant grande' and a licence 1. We asked about health & safety and of course hygiene regulations and were told that is was not obligatory as we have under 5 rooms; we are in regular contact with 'our lady' from the CdC and other official bodies and nobody has mentioned anything about a obligatory training course. I would be interested to hear if any other CdH owners have heard anything about this course?

I must add that I do hold a hygiene certificate obtained in the UK before we moved here.

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 Post subject: Re: Chambres D'Hotes & Obligatory training course
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:54 am 
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Location: Ambert 63600
I'm rushing a bit as always! But we only have three rooms and another lady on the course was only doing breakfasts so only ever serving non-alcoholic drinks.

I think hoteliers complaining has been one of the reasons that C D'H's have had to become more regulated although the hoteliers on the course said that we were not competition at all.

I think eventually it will reduce the amount of C D'H's which is sad.

There does seem to be a lot of confusion, apparently the course became obligatory in 2007 but as they didn't tell anyone or organise the training there's no surprise that no-one did it. Now there is the "Loi Bachelot" on the horizon, aimed at reducing drink related illness, accidents etc & the course has suddenly moved to the forefront. Everyone will have to do it eventually but I imagine it will take some time to organise.

The most disturbing thing for me was the girl who had recently leased a bar/hotel from the Mairie, as the course progressed it became obvious that she had been very badly advised. She was the one who was told to close immediately after a visit to the Douane!

I was also quite alarmed by some of the lunchtime conversations. The gist being that hygiene rules are so complicated & full of pitfalls now that the simplest thing to do is microwave snacks or only serve food from big suppliers. Things did become quite heated about this at one point.

I'm not against good hygiene & safety but some of our best moments in France have been in strange little restaurants that made you feel like you had just been invited in to share their lunch. I just hope the delicious home made food and quirky experiences aren't legislated out of existence.


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 Post subject: Re: Chambres D'Hotes & Obligatory training course
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:41 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:01 am
Posts: 1694
Hi!

The compulsory course is only in force since 9th April 2009


French link: Ici

English Google translation link: [b]IHere/b]

If it is clear, that if you operated before 2.4.2007, you do not need to do this course.
What is not clear, is the situation between 2.4.2007 and 9.4.2009

Yours

pom


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