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 Post subject: Electric heating
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:12 pm 
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I believe electric heating has come a long way in recent years, and even storage heaters have 'improved'. (To believe all the adverts anyway!)

I'm thinking of installing electric heating in my MS. Sadly the years are catching up on me physically and I am no longer able to fetch and carry logs at all hours of the day and night for the beloved poele a bois. I want to be able to spend more time in the house but at present winter is out.

Any recommendations for something more than plug in oil filled radiators? Any experience of using modern wall mounted heaters?

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:03 pm 
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Do a search for electric air to air heat pumps, don't use it myself but a couple I know who do say it's tops.

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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:17 pm 
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I run all my heating and cooling on air/air heat pumps. Effective and very efficient.Installation is generally pretty straightforward but you will end up with the heat pump/s sitting outside. Get advice from an installer, you can get single outdoor units that will serve multiple indoor units.


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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:30 pm 
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DaveW wrote:
I run all my heating and cooling on air/air heat pumps. Effective and very efficient.Installation is generally pretty straightforward but you will end up with the heat pump/s sitting outside. Get advice from an installer, you can get single outdoor units that will serve multiple indoor units.


Out of interest, what are your running costs / how much heat do you get out for the energy put in?

J


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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:42 pm 
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DaveW wrote:
I run all my heating and cooling on air/air heat pumps. Effective and very efficient.Installation is generally pretty straightforward but you will end up with the heat pump/s sitting outside. Get advice from an installer, you can get single outdoor units that will serve multiple indoor units.

And get plenty of quotes, the price varies enormously. Your local small heating engineer will often quote a lot less than the big boys on page 1 of a Google search. I think there's still a crédit d'impôt for such installations (Dave?).

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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:50 pm 
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Location: Alpes-Maritimes
I saw an immediate reduction of 20% on my yearly consumption, I'm all electric. This has been maintained over the ten years I have been using them. Pretty quick ROI. I don't know what the exact COP is for my setup. I live in an area were we only ever get a slight overnight frost in Dec/Jan/Feb for about 10% of the nights. I suppose that gives better performance from the heat pumps, how much, I have no idea.

Reading the online bumf, it seems you can still get reasonable efficiency even at low temperatures. I'm having an extension and renovation of two bedrooms done which will all be plumbed into a 3 split heat pump, which is south facing mounted on a wall. Orange trees can survive there so it should stay relatively warm.

I didn't get a credit for the first units I had installed, but I think there is a credit now, I haven't really researched that part.


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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:25 pm 
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Thank you for all your helpful replies. I have read, researched and googled all I can on air/heat pumps...............it all sounds marvellous, but a much bigger and more expensive job than I was hoping for.

Have any of you come across or know anything about:


http://www.fischerfutureheat.com/electr ... e-heaters/

or similar. This is the sort of thing I was thinking of.


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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:10 pm 
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Strangely enough we were having this conversation only the other day, and so the replies you have garnered may well prove useful for our thinking too.

I love the wood burning stove, in the centre of our small house, it has always been an efficient central heating system for the whole.

But, I have to cart logs to my cutting area, saw them in 2 with the chainsaw (recently replaced when an older one broke) and then stack and later carry them into the house. It is starting to get a little bit much as my wife is nowhere near strong enough and as for chainsawing....the one time she tried she nearly took her head off.. :o

We did have a period of using cut logs but the farmer delivers those with a tipper trailer and stacking the pile is way beyond my capabilities, never mind the lack of space available.

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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:30 pm 
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Know how you feel David with lugging logs about, I have always cut, split and stacked ours but now 78 is just around the corner, bad back and all its getting a bit much, even though for the first time in France we have central heating, still use the insert to heat sitting room as the wood is free and saves a lot in propane.
No more cutting down the trees for half buckshee for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:44 pm 
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Since moving here last year, we no longer have our free supply of wood. So we now get it delivered already cut in 50cm lengths and dumped in the barn. That way all we have to do is stack it and wheelbarrow as and when we need it. I have other tasks for OH and I do not use the chainsaw.


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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:21 pm 
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Blaze wrote:
Since moving here last year, we no longer have our free supply of wood. So we now get it delivered already cut in 50cm lengths and dumped in the barn. That way all we have to do is stack it and wheelbarrow as and when we need it. I have other tasks for OH and I do not use the chainsaw.


Is it dumped in a pile Blaze, or stacked for you? If you have the space a pile from a tipper is no problem, but to stack from a dumped pile needs more space than we have.

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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:46 pm 
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He dumps it in a pile off his tipper into the barn and we've got the space. We then stack it up along one side - it doesn't take long and the 50cm logs aren't heavy.


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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:49 pm 
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Blaze wrote:
He dumps it in a pile off his tipper into the barn and we've got the space. We then stack it up along one side - it doesn't take long and the 50cm logs aren't heavy.


That was our problem because we don't have the space. He dumped it at the end of the drive where we used to stack it on one side, but the pile overflowed the area for the stack so half the time we were just throwing it from one side to the other before we could stack it.

The metre logs come on a trailer chassis and he and his wife, or son, take it straight from that and stack it for us.

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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:11 am 
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Apologies, LaEtoile - we've rather gone off your query about electric heating.

I hear what you say about logs but have you thought about one of those Finnish woodburners that are made of stéatite (a sort of volcanic rock) ?
I have seen a couple of them at friends' houses and they are superb. They only need a couple of good logs to warm it up and the stone retains the heat for hours - overnight and more. They're a bit like a giant storage heater. I don't think they're cheap, but use so little wood and are very efficient. However, it may be too much of an outlay for a secondaire.

We bought a couple of night storage heaters for our gite - a complete waste of money ! The size recommended by the electrician was grossly under-estimated and the heat was not retained for very long - they were pretty useless. We lived with the big old fashioned storage heaters in Scotland and they were brilliant. The modern replacements were not nearly as good. What I'm trying to say is that if you do go for night storage heaters, just make sure that they are big enough !


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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:16 pm 
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Then there's always the rocket stove.
HWH is the one to say about it, or look up her earlier post.
When we extend into our barn to form a master suite and cathedral ceiling sitting room it's my intention to build one, have done all the research, have the makings, just still need to sell back in the Lot for the money.

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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:03 pm 
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We had a free survey done yesterday and the recommendation was to re-inforce the loft insulation with the latest Laine Minerale which is sprayed in to a depth of about 30 cms.

Cost € 1 980 with a grant of € 770, not sure if that is before or after the grant. If we go ahead we will of course clear that point up.

Also a choice of a pellet burner to replace our wood burner which also attracts a grant of 30%.

But they came down on the side of a heat pump (which also cools in summer and is the reason why there is no grant on that) at a cost of € 7 135.

Looking at the competition that seems a bit steep but it does include absolutely everything including any mistake made by the salesman.

The pellet burner is attractive to us but it does have one serious flaw. It is electrically controlled by a thermostat and programmed on/off switch and thus if there is a power cut we will be absolutely devoid of heating.

With the heat pump the same risk of cuts is there too but the big difference is that we would still have the backup of our wood burner.

No doubt we would make some savings in terms of wood or electric with the improved insulation, but otherwise it is going to make no difference to our current electric bill, estimated at around €500/pa

He pressed us really hard to sign up straight away 'to check if grant and finance are indeed available' but I don't do things that way and he will come back on Monday after we have had time to think.

My thoughts on waking this morning were to go for the insulation without finance (we have been debt free since 1999 and have a strict aversion to anyone sticking their greedy fingers in our meagre bank account) and to think more about the heat pump after getting clearer details of electric consumption.

But, for the first time in as long as I can remember the fire just didn't want to take off this morning. Did he sabotage our woodpile on his way out???

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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:33 am 
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Well, we decided to go with the heat pump and blown insulation of the roof space in the old part of the house.

The job is all done now and I am more than pleased with it. The temperature is set at 20C and it maintains it throughout the house. The outside unit (fan) is so silent that, even though it is directly underneath my ground floor open bedroom window, I can't hear it in the room.

After first setting it to switch off at midnight and then back on at 7am I realised my mistake. The temperature dropped to 14C and took all morning to get back up to 20 again.

Since then I have left it on all the time.

Trialling over 2 5-day periods the total daily electricity used by the house (not just the heat pump) has been an average of 22kwh. I reckon this works out at a very rough calculation at €871 a year, bearing in mind it will be unlikely to be running in summer, and our normal leccy bill is around €500, that seems pretty reasonable to me. Especially in view of the fact that we spend around €450 a year on wood. It does act as a cooler in summer but it would have to be a real canicule for that as we prefer doors open for the dog and the living room is rarely too hot.

The joy of not having to daily cut and stack logs or worry that, while in another room I have let the fire go out, makes it worth every penny.

Getting up to a nice warm house isn't bad either. :)

Oh, the cost for both the pump and the insulation was just over € 8,000 which we decided was better paid out straight away by stealing from the savings account. We were offered finance, 6 months free, then 4 monthly payments followed by an immediate settling of the debt without cost. I decided against that for 2 reasons. When I heard the name of the finance house and realised that it was the same outfit that diddled me on my health insurance last year, so didn't trust them to stick to the bargain, and remembering a similar scheme in England many years ago when 4 different firms, seller, bank, finance, another bank, got in a mix up and started to charge me £2 a day interest for a bill I had paid. It took months of letters and phone calls, the last directly to the CEO of RBS personally, before it was settled.

Actually, a third reason, the loss of one year's interest on our LEP was way less than the interest, charges and insurance of the never-never route.

Forgot to mention, the heat pump does not qualify for a grant but the €900 insulation bill does, of 30%. So we will get around €300 back next year.

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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:34 am 
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Thanks for the detailed info, Spardo. That's what I'd like to have when we move.

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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:17 am 
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It does sound interesting. The other benefit of this type of heating is you won't get the dust that wood fires give off.
But having wood fires could be useful if there is a power cut.

It's interesting to hear that the fans are quiet - I had always feared they would be noisy.


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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:34 am 
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Blaze wrote:
It does sound interesting. The other benefit of this type of heating is you won't get the dust that wood fires give off.
But having wood fires could be useful if there is a power cut.

It's interesting to hear that the fans are quiet - I had always feared they would be noisy.



I have to stick my head out of the window, ears just 3 feet, with no obstructions, from the fan, to hear it. And then only just. The installers' first idea was to fit it on the back wall of the house, which is just around the corner and still on my bedroom wall, but said that, as it was a bedroom, they worried there might be vibration. So it is in front of the front wall, about 6 inches away where it is fixed to the concrete base of the terrasse.

The reason we discarded thr first idea, a pellet burner, was because it uses a tiny amount of electricity in the controls and, in a power cut, we would be entirely without heat. At least with this the cheminee stays in place and we have a good stock of wood which, if only used in power cuts, could last us years as a back-up.

And it is so clean around that area.

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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:58 am 
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The installation cost of the heat pump system doesn't seem unreasonable (though I imagine it depends on the number of radiators).


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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:13 am 
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Blaze wrote:
The installation cost of the heat pump system doesn't seem unreasonable (though I imagine it depends on the number of radiators).


Yes, just the one in our small house, but, with all our internal doors open it soon spread, and then maintained, an even temperature throughout.

I am writing this in my rear veranda where the temp is, of course, 20C. I didn't measure it before but in winter, at least before the sun came up, it is east facing, after an hour at the keyboard my hands used to be like ice. Despite the roaring log fire I had lit round the corner in the main room.

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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:23 am 
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Our woodburner here only heats the sitting room - even with the hall door open, the heat doesn't seem to spread outwards. In fact, the hideous neo-Breton fireplace sends a lot of the heat straight up the chimney. But it's going to be dealt with before next winter ....


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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:24 pm 
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Regarding costs of installing items to save you money etc, look at the following link quoting professionals costs and what the magazine thinks they should be...

http://www.charentelibre.fr/2017/03/09/ ... p=1&xtcr=2


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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:34 pm 
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With a south and south western facing roof I was attratced to the idea of solar a long time ago, but soon realised that I was way too old to benefit from any long term moneysaving. Sadly.

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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:20 pm 
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I've been really happy with my Toshiba units and would recommend them. Now it's warmed up the builder has disconnected the condenser for our living room and put in new pipes and ducting to move it to the soon to be built retaining wall 8 meters away, at the same time they have installed the pipework for three small units for the renovation to connect to a three split condenser. I'm living in a building site at the moment.

I think you will enjoy a hassle free heating/cooling system.


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 Post subject: Re: Electric heating
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:55 pm 
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DaveW wrote:
I've been really happy with my Toshiba units and would recommend them. Now it's warmed up the builder has disconnected the condenser for our living room and put in new pipes and ducting to move it to the soon to be built retaining wall 8 meters away, at the same time they have installed the pipework for three small units for the renovation to connect to a three split condenser. I'm living in a building site at the moment.

I think you will enjoy a hassle free heating/cooling system.


Early indications are that I will be. My unit is a Mitsubishi.

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